Karl Marx ~ Sakinorva Databank

The Sakinorva Databank

Karl Marx

Philosopher

in Philosophy, Psychology, and Social Sciences

Karl Marx ~ Sakinorva Databank

Karl Marx

Philosopher

Philosophy, Psychology, and Social Sciences

e

i

n

s

f

t

p

j

function

ennea

variant

socio

psyche

INTJ 8

8w9 4

5w6 3

8w7 1

cp5w6 1

sx/so 4

so/sx 2

so/sp 1

SLE 8

ILE 4

IEI 2

LIE 1

VLFE 3

2

3

4

5

6

7

8

9

1

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total votes 57

11

8

9

7

7

15

3

1

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	LVNA 2018/11/04 (Sun) 23:16:15 #4051
	"The Social Eight is the countertype of the three Eight subtypes. Social Eights represent a contradiction: the Eight archetype rebels against social norms, but the Social Eight is also oriented toward protection and loyalty. They express lust and aggression in the service of life and other people. This person is "social antisocial." In contrast to Self-Preservation Eights, Social Eights are more loyal, more overtly friendly, and less aggressive. They are helpful Eights-people who are nurturing, protective, and concerned with the injustices that happen to people-yet they also display an antisocial aspect with regard to the rules of society. Naranjo explains that, symbolically, this character represents the child who became tough (or violent) in protecting his mother against his father. This is someone who bands together with the mother and goes against the patriarchal power and all that is associated with it: violence out of solidarity. Archetypally, this character represents the child who has given up on getting love from the father and allied with the mother against him. Social Eights are very sensitive to detecting situations in which people are being persecuted or exploited by others that hold more power. When they detect this kind of thing, they tend to act to protect those who are less powerful. Karl Marx, the champion of worker solidarity and outspoken critic of capitalism, may have been a Social Eight. Overall, this Eight appears more mellow and outgoing and less quick to anger than the other Eights. They tend to rebel in less obvious was. They are very active, and they may lose themselves through constantly being in action. They may display a disproportionate lust for projects or for collecting things. ... The Social Eight subtype is the most intellectual of the three, but these Eights also rebel against the dominant (patriarchal) culture. This rebellion necessarily involves a mixture of authority and intellect because the dominant authority in patriarchal societies tends to promote the intellectual control of impulses and excess. While the Sexual Eight is the most overtly anti-intellectual of the three Eight subtypes, the Social Eight goes up against the power of authority out of a desire to protect the oppressed and, unconsciously, a personal need for the nurturance associated with maternal care." Tbh...if Slavoj can be an 8 why can't Marxy be one? It does seem a bit counterintuitive, but I think I'll keep this vote here because I ran into this subtype description and the way his temperament is described at least opens up the possibility for him to not be a 5 I think (so a reminder it can be hard to assess temperament definitively unless it's resoundingly clear, especially for someone we're two centuries distanced from). Also his writing style for me was just very spastic in a lot of ways...could be a translation thing, but maybe not all high structure oriented philosophers have to be 5. And finally, I really do like the idea of him as So...I think instincts in a sense have gotten mixed up. Sx you can define as passion, but what if the person is ultimately impassioned by forging a social identity or impacting the world at large? Or what if they are extraordinarily passionate and hateful (think 4 Sx description), but it comes out of self-protection at the expense of giving in to someone in such a way that it could transform you? (this would have to be non-Sx (think Marilyn Manson, who somehow is seen as an Sx 4 when he does everything for external shock value)). Point is, instincts appear blown out of proportion and sometimes focus more on how someone "appears" than the potential reasoning for their behavior. I realize I'm being contradictory because I just used the social 8 description (lol) but I do think Marx was ultimately socially focused first and yeah he was passionate about it but that doesn't mean he is Sx.

Editing post #4051 by LVNA <p>"The Social Eight is the countertype of the three Eight subtypes. Social Eights represent a contradiction: the Eight archetype rebels against social norms, but the <strong>Social Eight is also oriented toward protection and loyalty. They express lust and aggression in the service of life and other people.</strong><br /> <br /> This person is "social antisocial." In contrast to Self-Preservation Eights, Social Eights are more loyal, more overtly friendly, and less aggressive. They are helpful Eights-people who are nurturing, protective, and <strong>concerned with the injustices that happen to people-yet they also display an antisocial aspect with regard to the rules of society.</strong><br /> <br /> Naranjo explains that, symbolically, this character represents the child who became tough (or violent) in protecting his mother against his father. This is someone who bands together with the mother and <strong>goes against the patriarchal power and all that is associated with it: violence out of solidarity</strong>. Archetypally, this character represents the child who has given up on getting love from the father and allied with the mother against him.<br /> <br /> Social Eights <strong>are very sensitive to detecting situations in which people are being persecuted or exploited by others that hold more power. When they detect this kind of thing, they tend to act to protect those who are less powerful. Karl Marx, the champion of worker solidarity and outspoken critic of capitalism, may have been a Social Eight.</strong><br /> <br /> Overall, this Eight appears more mellow and outgoing and less quick to anger than the other Eights. They tend to rebel in less obvious was. They are very active, and they may lose themselves through constantly being in action. They may display a disproportionate lust for projects or for collecting things.</p> <p>...</p> <p><strong>The Social Eight subtype is the most intellectual of the three, but these Eights also rebel against the dominant (patriarchal) culture.</strong> This rebellion necessarily involves a <strong>mixture of authority and intellect because the dominant authority in patriarchal societies</strong> tends to promote the intellectual control of impulses and excess. <em>While the Sexual Eight is the most overtly anti-intellectual of the three Eight subtypes</em>, the <strong>Social Eight goes up against the power of authority out of a desire to protect the oppressed and, unconsciously, a personal need for the nurturance associated with <a href="http://i.viglink.com/?key=bf97434f327a40ffe6cbe2e297a8e230&insertId=3973f1999da4e184&type=H&mid=6692&exp=60%3ACI1C55A%3A8&libId=jo3sg2k90100seql000DAbmh4sscc&loc=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.personalitycafe.com%2Ftype-8-forum-challenger%2F327674-social-eights-according-beatrice-chestnut.html&v=1&iid=3973f1999da4e184&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pntrs.com%2Ft%2F1-6692-43737-6692%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fwww.herbspro.com%252Fmaternal-care-bamboo-fem-wipes-115330&ref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F&title=%5BEnneagram%20Type%208%5D%20Social%20Eights%20(according%20to%20Beatrice%20Chestnut)&txt=%3Cspan%3Ematernal%20%3C%2Fspan%3E%3Cspan%3Ecare%3C%2Fspan%3E" target="_blank">maternal care</a>." Tbh...if Slavoj can be an 8 why can't Marxy be one? It does seem a bit counterintuitive, but I think I'll keep this vote here because I ran into this subtype description and the way his temperament is described at least opens up the possibility for him to not be a 5 I think (so a reminder it can be hard to assess temperament definitively unless it's resoundingly clear, especially for someone we're two centuries distanced from). Also his writing style for me was just very spastic in a lot of ways...could be a translation thing, but maybe not all high structure oriented philosophers have to be 5. And finally, I really do like the idea of him as So...I think instincts in a sense have gotten mixed up. Sx you can define as passion, but what if the person is ultimately impassioned by forging a social identity or impacting the world at large? Or what if they are extraordinarily passionate and hateful (think 4 Sx description), but it comes out of self-protection at the expense of giving in to someone in such a way that it could transform you? (this would have to be non-Sx (think Marilyn Manson, who somehow is seen as an Sx 4 when he does everything for external shock value)). Point is, instincts appear blown out of proportion and sometimes focus more on how someone "appears" than the potential reasoning for their behavior. I realize I'm being contradictory because I just used the social 8 description (lol) but I do think Marx was ultimately socially focused first and yeah he was passionate about it but that doesn't mean he is Sx. </strong></p> <p> </p> <p> </p>
Replying to post #4051 by LVNA

	fg xxTJ 6w5 Beta ST 2018/07/04 (Wed) 12:17:22 #1819
	SLE >LSI finally his philosophy is more about strengh rapport than structure of society's regulations . he is also more adaptative and stubborn than Krugman (LSI). SLEs are also less prudent than LSIs .SLE is evident when you see the description of SLE made by Piatnisky http://wikisocion.net/en/index.php?title=Socionics_Type_Descriptions_by_Piatnitskiy#SLE_.28Zhukov.29 .also, SLE fit perfectly with gulenko's "philosophy for SLE"even if this idea of a philosophy attrubed exclusivly to one type (+without take in account subtypes) can be easely criticized .

Editing post #1819 by fg <p>SLE >LSI finally his philosophy is more about strengh rapport than structure of society's regulations . he is also more adaptative and stubborn than Krugman (LSI). SLEs are also less prudent than LSIs .SLE is evident when you see the description of SLE made by Piatnisky http://wikisocion.net/en/index.php?title=Socionics_Type_Descriptions_by_Piatnitskiy#SLE_.28Zhukov.29 .also, SLE fit perfectly with gulenko's "philosophy for SLE"even if this idea of a philosophy attrubed exclusivly to one type (+without take in account subtypes) can be easely criticized .</p>
Replying to post #1819 by fg

Diobono int 5w4 ili 2018/05/28 (Mon) 12:45:59 #800
Well tbh though hegel doesnt negate the validity of the artistic experience and also of the religious experience and puts both as moments of truth of the Spirit but yeah they are 'inferior' axiologically compared to philosophy because they are not conceptual based.. they are still valid though. btw marx is much more revolutionary and hot blooded than hegel i would vote for strong sx instinct

Editing post #800 by Diobono <p>Well tbh though hegel doesnt negate the validity of the artistic experience and also of the religious experience and puts both as moments of truth of the Spirit but yeah they are 'inferior' axiologically compared to philosophy because they are not conceptual based.. they are still valid though. btw marx is much more revolutionary and hot blooded than hegel i would vote for strong sx instinct</p>
Replying to post #800 by Diobono

	LVNA 2018/05/25 (Fri) 13:18:07 #739
	“Hegel trusted the irrational aspect of iNtuition more even if he tried to systemwide it with his at dominance.” I really disagree with this. In fact I think he systemized it because he feared and did not trust it. His systemizing of intuition was a cold blooded murdering of respect for irrationality and allowed him to purge it from the sphere of man’s meaning to the point that he claimed creative works of art were less capable of conveying its contents than highly polished philosophical scripts. It’s like he wanted to confine intuition and play it down so that he could claim rational philosophizing were the bed all be all.

Editing post #739 by LVNA <p>“Hegel trusted the irrational aspect of iNtuition more even if he tried to systemwide it with his at dominance.” I really disagree with this. In fact I think he systemized it because he feared and did not trust it. His systemizing of intuition was a cold blooded murdering of respect for irrationality and allowed him to purge it from the sphere of man’s meaning to the point that he claimed creative works of art were less capable of conveying its contents than highly polished philosophical scripts. It’s like he wanted to confine intuition and play it down so that he could claim rational philosophizing were the bed all be all. </p>
Replying to post #739 by LVNA

	lvna 2018/05/23 (Wed) 02:11:11 #705
	https://strawberryplants.org/strawberry-picking/ I think this is the site you meant to go on quite honestly. But the strawberry fields you seek to pluck here are forever entertwined in this site, so you would have better luck if you found a more local place to carry out this activity. I think that would make Marx happy too, like the local thing and all. It's always good to carry forward the timeless work of an LSI compatriot.

Editing post #705 by lvna <p>https://strawberryplants.org/strawberry-picking/ I think this is the site you meant to go on quite honestly. But the strawberry fields you seek to pluck here are forever entertwined in this site, so you would have better luck if you found a more local place to carry out this activity. I think that would make Marx happy too, like the local thing and all. It's always good to carry forward the timeless work of an LSI compatriot. </p>
Replying to post #705 by lvna

	fg xxTJ 6w5 Beta ST 2018/05/23 (Wed) 01:53:05 #704
	why you said that i don't follow my logic? because Nietzsche unlike Marx ( a Fi user in socionic) value individual over any social structure, and Karl Marx think that social structure matter more than individual. so i don't see why you see a contradiction here. even if i can see why a nonsense person like strawberry liked your comment.

Editing post #704 by fg <p>why you said that i don't follow my logic? because Nietzsche unlike Marx ( a Fi user in socionic) value individual over any social structure, and Karl Marx think that social structure matter more than individual. so i don't see why you see a contradiction here. even if i can see why a nonsense person like strawberry liked your comment.</p>
Replying to post #704 by fg

	LVNA 2018/05/22 (Tue) 17:27:01 #699
	I said if you really believed in quadra you’d have typed Nietzsche as Beta not that you did. I’m showing that your icy spires of impenetrable logic are actually quite penetrable because you even don’t follow them. It seems they’re subordinate to your overwhelming desire to be right which is something that in many ways characterizes me and has in the past had the effect of casing me into a limiting iteration of myself so excuse me please for a moment if I engage this side of you and stare back at the horrifying nature of my own that seeks to constantly out do your seeking of correctness to purge myself of it onto this website before the abyss gazes back into me. You are my most loved friend here because in you I am presented with the me to which I would like to take out the dagger and revert to star dust.

Editing post #699 by LVNA <p>I said if you really believed in quadra you’d have typed Nietzsche as Beta not that you did. I’m showing that your icy spires of impenetrable logic are actually quite penetrable because you even don’t follow them. It seems they’re subordinate to your overwhelming desire to be right which is something that in many ways characterizes me and has in the past had the effect of casing me into a limiting iteration of myself so excuse me please for a moment if I engage this side of you and stare back at the horrifying nature of my own that seeks to constantly out do your seeking of correctness to purge myself of it onto this website before the abyss gazes back into me. You are my most loved friend here because in you I am presented with the me to which I would like to take out the dagger and revert to star dust. </p> <p> </p>
Replying to post #699 by LVNA

	fg xxTJ 6w5 Beta ST 2018/05/22 (Tue) 16:33:08 #695
	Marx philosophy systematicity of dialectic (Ti) ,by history rules(Ti) and balance of power (Se). he is obviously a beta quadra. he don't see individual he see class (it's Ti in socionic). and have a poor Ne can work for him, his radical opposition to everything not acorded with his materialist dialectic system (Ti-Se) show it(exemple: with Proudhon). the crucial role of Strengh in his philosophy is a clear indicator of high socionic Se. Lack of passion? did you even read about his life he was clearly a passioned activist.

Editing post #695 by fg <p>Marx philosophy systematicity of dialectic (Ti) ,by history rules(Ti) and balance of power (Se). he is obviously a beta quadra. he don't see individual he see class (it's Ti in socionic). and have a poor Ne can work for him, his radical opposition to everything not acorded with his materialist dialectic system (Ti-Se) show it(exemple: with Proudhon). the crucial role of Strengh in his philosophy is a clear indicator of high socionic Se.</p> <p>Lack of passion? did you even read about his life he was clearly a passioned activist.</p>
Replying to post #695 by fg

	lvna 2018/05/22 (Tue) 15:35:16 #691
	LSI and Ne PolR are ridiculous suggestions for someone who mainly used Te and Ne to create his philosophy. There's no way he's a Jungian introvert. He's typed ILE by the socionists but that's probably because of how he presents in his younger days. Overall he's a Jungian Te type and he's certainly not Sx first. He lacks the passion and intensity of a true introvert or even someone who is concerned with intensifying individual connections. He saw communism as a way to reinvigorate people's relationship to external social reality as a whole...something that an Sx 5 like Nietzsche would have laughed at profusely. Also his reasons for collectivization are devoid of a care for liberation from the self or any sort of thing like that.

Editing post #691 by lvna <p>LSI and Ne PolR are ridiculous suggestions for someone who mainly used Te and Ne to create his philosophy. There's no way he's a Jungian introvert. He's typed ILE by the socionists but that's probably because of how he presents in his younger days. Overall he's a Jungian Te type and he's certainly not Sx first. He lacks the passion and intensity of a true introvert or even someone who is concerned with intensifying individual connections. He saw communism as a way to reinvigorate people's relationship to external social reality as a whole...something that an Sx 5 like Nietzsche would have laughed at profusely. Also his reasons for collectivization are devoid of a care for liberation from the self or any sort of thing like that. </p>
Replying to post #691 by lvna

date	username	vote
22/03/07 15:42	darkstar	ENTJ
21/10/20 12:39	Reinek	INTP
19/09/10 09:10	fsninetwo	INTJ
19/02/08 22:42	Taco110	INTJ
21/10/05 22:29	Tman	INTJ
20/02/18 22:02	tch	ENTP
18/07/26 08:27	Teru Mikami	INTP
18/07/17 07:47	fg	ENTP
20/07/16 05:14	Diobono	INTJ
18/07/27 01:20	LVNA	ENTP
18/05/12 04:52	Nyx	INTJ

date	username	vote
22/03/07 15:42	darkstar	INTJ
20/07/16 10:32	Tman	INTJ
19/10/14 17:08	Lol	INTJ
19/09/10 09:10	fsninetwo	INTJ
19/02/08 22:43	Taco110	INTJ
19/01/27 21:34	tch	INTJ
18/07/26 08:28	Teru Mikami	INTJ
18/05/12 04:40	fg	INTJ

date	username	vote
22/03/07 15:42	darkstar	8w7
20/07/19 13:06	Tman	8w9
19/12/30 02:23	tch	5w6
19/10/14 17:08	Lol	8w9
20/07/16 05:14	Diobono	cp5w6
19/02/08 22:43	Taco110	5w6
19/06/20 15:15	Teru Mikami	8w9
18/08/26 15:38	LVNA	8w9
18/05/12 04:40	fg	5w6

date	username	vote
22/03/07 15:42	darkstar	so/sp
21/10/05 22:37	Tman	so/sx
19/03/22 19:35	Taco110	sx/so
18/07/26 08:28	Teru Mikami	sx/so
18/07/04 06:37	Diobono	sx/so
18/11/04 23:09	LVNA	so/sx
18/05/12 04:40	fg	sx/so

date	username	vote
22/03/07 15:42	darkstar	853
20/07/19 13:14	Tman	854
20/01/28 07:34	Diobono	854
19/12/30 02:23	tch	583
19/02/08 21:20	ResoluteSoul	451
18/11/04 23:10	LVNA	854
18/09/17 10:07	Teru Mikami	583

date	username	vote
23/08/01 21:41	Woll Smoth	SLE
22/03/07 15:42	darkstar	LIE
21/05/24 07:50	LII	ILE
20/12/07 11:25	Tman	SLE
20/01/21 00:43	zazu	SLE
19/11/27 13:13	fleetingpetals	SLE
19/09/08 14:22	Lol	SLE
19/05/06 20:12	Avalonia	IEI
19/03/25 18:18	Diobono	ILE
19/03/22 19:36	Taco110	SLE
18/11/13 05:53	echidna1000	IEI
19/06/20 15:15	Teru Mikami	SLE
18/08/26 15:38	LVNA	ILE
18/07/04 12:08	fg	SLE

date	username	vote
21/10/05 22:32	Tman	VLFE
20/05/28 04:59	fleetingpetals1	VLFE
19/10/20 16:47	fg	VLFE

date	username	vote
20/03/03 02:14	tch	HEXACO